Gothic BC

I knew that.   :P

Then again, I used to study etymology and the like, so I have an unfair advantage.   ;D

Very well put, Atratus.(ok)

*sigh* ...time for etymology lesson:

Goth was the name of a Scandinavian tribe that descended at some undetermined time before the 1st century BC into the area that is now the Ukraine and Galatia (And it amuses me to no end that I happen to be descended from these people, BTW. My father's family comes from the Carpathian mountiains north of Transylvania that is now the western most end of the Ukraine, but at the time they left was part of the Austrio-Hungarian Empire.).

In the latter years of the Roman Empire, factions of this group, the Visigoths and the Ostrogoths invaded an colonised a great deal of Roman territory ranging from what is now Romainia to Northern Spain. Their invasions were not exactly a "civilising" force and little things like cutting off the left arms of slain enemies and hanging them in trees as offerings to the one-armed war god Tiw (from which the word "Tuesday" comes, incidentally) earned them a bit of a bad reputation in Italy, where "Goth" became synonymous with "barbarian".

Some centuries later when Classically-based Romanesque basilica architecture was giving way to a new form with pointed arches and flying buttresses in parts of Germany and Northern France, conservatives in Italy considered the new architectural style gaudy and barbaric, and called it Gothic. If it seems odd that the bad rap aquired by the Goth should have persisted for centuries after the fall of Rome, consider another tribe whose bad repuation persists in the language today, the Vandals. Nearly two thousand years have gone by and their name is still synonymous with ruining things.

A few more centuries pass, and the term Gothic came not only to apply to the particular type of architecture it was applied to as a term of derision, but to the entire period said architecture was at its height. A this point "Gothic" comes to mean anything to do with the late Mediæval period. Not only is there Gothic architecture, but Gothic art, Gothic castles (which almost never exhibit the characteristics of Gothic church architecture since it is inappropriate to fortifications) -- even Gothic music and Gothic fashion. Gregorian chants are "Gothic music" in this sense of the term.

In the 19th century a branch of Romantic literature emerged that was typically set in buildings from the Gothic period - The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Frankenstein, and Dracula to name three of the most well known. So, because of their setting, the genre got called "Gothic literature". Because of the thematic content of the same stories this got the term Gothic associated with horror.

Another century goes by and along comes a post-punk musical genre with a moody sound and bleak lyrics skirting around or even, in the case of "Bela Lugosi's dead" directly referencing Gothic horror literature. At first the music press calls it things like "gloom punk", "death rock" and finally settles on "Gothic rock".

So, yes, you can have "Gothic metal" - i.e. metal that references themes relating to Gothic literature. It doesn't necessarily mean it is derived or even related to Gothic rock or other Gothically inspired genres. And in the contemporary sense being a goth has equally as much to do with enjoying the sorts of imagery and style evocative of Gothic literature as with enjoying the music that is inspired by those same themes.

Too many labels kill the vibe. Its hard enough to label a person as a goth correctly, labeling music is such a sketchy business. And electronica in any way shape or form has very little to do with punk in it's orrigional form, so why shouldn't there be 'goth metal', music is all about theme and veriation, not labels.

Heh. you read my mind Atratus, I meant western, I mean, do they really have to whine about everything all the time? :X

Meh, Bluegrass is quite good at times, Don't mind some of johnny cash's songs either

I think as long as its not Country, your ok if your listening to it. :P

I don't really listen to any music that one would classify as "goth"...  at least not on a regular basis.  There are always going to be people who are pig-headed and close-minded and think that to be goth that you have to stay in the goth box.  However, these people who insist that you conform to the "enlightened (and exclusive) way of the goth" are the same people who, as the hypocrites they are, will spout the most hateful thing about conformists in any other part of society.  I say shrug it off, put some jazz in the CD player and drive away.

> when i've talked about some of my 70's punk rock bands i love they let lose

Then they are pure idiots that don't have a clue where goth started. I was around in the 70's and a rotten little punk. The original goth groups like Siouxsie and the Banshees, The (Easy) Cure, the Smiths and others came right out of the same East London music scene as The Sex Pistols. In the beginning, circa 1977-1980 punk and goth were one-and-the-same. The term "Goth" didn't really come into play until the mid-1980's when the British music press made it up, and prior to that the terms "Gloom Punks" or "Gloom Rockers" were pretty much the standards.

Anyone that says you can only listen to X to be properly Y is IMHO an assmunch. I'm deeply fond of 1920's-1940's jazz,  18th and 19th century classical, 1970's punk, 1980's industrial, late 1960's/early 1970's acid rock, and plenty of other things.

There is no "should". Someone who spouts off about what you "should" listen to needs to stop and think for a second. If we all did what someone else thought we "should" do we'd all be aiming for 2.5 kids, a dog, a mortgage in the suburbs, et al. and there wouldn't be any subcultures at all.