Published 
Public: Anyone can view. I attended Sin City for the first time in 2 years and won't again, any time soon, if ever. Can someone tell me why it takes an hour and a half to get 150 people into the building? I have managed events with over 35,000 people and we got everyone in, in 30 minutes. I always hate it when I see someone successful in spite of themselves but that is sure the case with this event.
It's so simple, get a few people walking through the lineup, with aprons, tickets and some cash. Take peoples money, give them a ticket and then all they have to do is pass through the ID check and they are in. I had 150 people in front of me, I got there right at 9:00, there is no reason I shouldn't have been in by 9:15... not 10:30.
It's ridiculous that we all lineup, in our pvc, and heels, etc., freezing outside, only to pass by one little ticket wicket with one single person responsible for collecting all the admission money. How much money is lost in alcohol sales alone? If it takes an average of 90 minutes to get in, I'm guessing that is at least 2 drinks per person in lost revenue?
I know people that don't go anymore because of the lineups. Hey, the events are popular, good for the promoter, but I hope those people realize it is those in line that make the events a financial success and it is always a good idea to provide good customer service, no matter what your business.
I hope someone doesn't come back with a lame excuse why it takes all that time to get in but I do hope a few people will back me up on this one... who knows if enough people speak up we might actually get in, in a reasonable manner sometime down the road at future Sin City events.
Interesting, how the possibility of staying in the shade of anonymity while being online makes people 'brave'. If you, Get Real, had registered here with a name of some sort, you probably would have had chosen a more productive way of criticism.
But then, this wasn't your point, right?:
"I hope someone doesn't come back with a lame excuse why it takes all that time to get in but I do hope a few people will back me up on this one"
Your google-fu is weak, btw!
>it's weird, Richards almost seems too mainstream to hold SinCity.
>(snip)We gotta make it work with what is available to us!
Oh no, I wasn't complaining, just noticing...
>At our first Sin City at Richards, some of the bouncers made some inppropriate comments to a few patrons. After a chat with the owner, they never got to work Sin City nights again.
The bouncers were pissed that we forbade them to hold the line and force bribes to get in faster, but there was NO way we were going to let that happen. We can't be everywhere at once and things do happen, but its never Sin City staff and when it does happen and we hear about we are all over it. You do NOT want to get on Mr. Dark's bad side!!!!
Like I say, it was a Richards bouncer, not a regular Sincity door person. The fact that it's common practice to "hold a line" and take bribes is very very sad. Combined with generally crappy music that 95% of the clubs play in Vancouver now, makes it difficult to track down a good place/night to go to.
What it comes down to is, it is a popular night. A popular night means a full house. And if the house if full at 10 pm because everybody got there at 9, ya gotta wait til someone leaves before you get in (and if they're having fun, they won't be leaving for a while). If there's people in line in front of you, you aren't getting in until after they do. Ever use the bathroom at movie theatre just as a movie lets out? Or a bank machine at lunchtime in a business district? Same deal. If a bunch of people show up to something that can only handle so many people at a time, you wait. No amount of taking money in advance, or adding extra entrances, or putting on extra staff can change that. If there's only 10 toilets, only 10 people at a time can pee.
If you don't want to wait, go to the SinCity event at Richard's instead of Club 23. It's bigger so it doesn't fill up as fast.
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>I did a google search before posting at 'your' site and it was the only thing that came up >regarding 'Sin City', if there was an email address or a contact person (for Sin City) listed >somewhere, I would have made a direct contact,
Odd. For years I have been getting email and comments from people from out of town who have googled things like 'fetish Vancouver' (let alone a direct search for Sin City!) and come up with scores of listings for the night. We have the listings on a huge array of forums and almost all of them have an easily located contact person, usually me.
I googled 'Sin City' and for sure, the Gothic BC listing was one of the only things on the page about the event, along with tons of stuff about Sin City the movie, comic book or Las Vegas. Obviously Sin City was a bit too generic of a search, so I tried 'Sin City Vancouver' and 'Sin City Fetish Night' instead. In both cases the Gothic BC site was the top ranked return, which is not too surprising since as a heavily trafficked photo site for not just Sin City but for a whole slew of scenes and nights, Michael's hard work on the site often means it comes up #1 on searches!
However, right after that there are multiple listings for the event on ClubZone.com, ClubVibes.com, both of which have a contact link which brings you to our myspace page, which prominently displays the promoters and contact info for people behind the night. Page 2 of the google search came up with the myspace link directly. True, a simple google of 'Sin City' doesn't immediately drop the promoters emails of this particular event in your lap, but after two seconds of narrowing it down to Sin City the Fetish Night or Sin City the Vancouver event, and taking a second to glance at any of the event listings, and the contact info is readily and easily available.
>and further to that I have made >suggestions to the people there directly in the past >(90 minutes to get in the door).
If your comments were made in the same aggressive, confrontational and insulting manner as they were here, I think it would be easy to understand if anyone didn't react to you as if you simply wanting to be helpful and constructive as someone who had concerns. Approaching what you see as a problem with basically the theme of 'It's bullshit I had to wait that long, Sin City has done nothing to deserve its success, and I could do so much better' it's hardly going to get people to react to you positively.
And by the way, we do take all suggestions seriosuly, though we may not agree with all of them or implement all of them due to feasibility. It was directly due to our attendees demands that we opened a second night at a much larger venue, for example.
>it's weird, Richards almost seems too mainstream to hold SinCity.
Yet it is the specific venue that people DEMANDED we move to when the lineups started to get long at 23 West. Besides which, club spots on Saturdays, especially big ones at 500 person capacity larger clubs, are very rare indeed and not easily available. We worked hard to get in there and happily the hard work paid off. I'm not even sure there IS another 400+ venue we could lock down for a Saturday spot. We gotta make it work with what is available to us!
>But anyway, virtually no lines there is always a good thing, and the turnouts are great.
Hell yeah. Plus the stage dancing, upper balcony and multiple bar stations.
>But while waiting in line for the Halloween party there back in October, I *did* see a >couple of top40-ish American guys successfully bribe one of the doormen to get in, >without costumes I might add. It wasn't one of the normal door people I see at SinCity >all the time, but some dude who must be used to doing that on normal club nights in >Vancouver. I know it's common practice for the masses, but it just made me sad >though, thinking that having a dress /costume code, maybe we rose above that type >of thing.
Trust me, whenever anything like this happens, it's always the venues staff and culminates in action from us. At our first Sin City at Richards, some of the bouncers made some inppropriate comments to a few patrons. After a chat with the owner, they never got to work Sin City nights again. The bouncers were pissed that we forbade them to hold the line and force bribes to get in faster, but there was NO way we were going to let that happen. We can't be everywhere at once and things do happen, but its never Sin City staff and when it does happen and we hear about we are all over it. You do NOT want to get on Mr. Dark's bad side!!!!
>I attended Sin City for the first time in 2 years and won't again, any time soon, if ever. >Can someone tell me why it takes an hour and a half to get 150 people into the >building?
Hello, I'm one of the two promoters. Let me try and address some of your concerns.
I'm not sure where you got this figure of 150 people in 90 minutes from, as we typically hit capacity like clockwork at the 23 West event anywhere from 9:45 to 10:15 PM. That averages out to about 240 people admitted in an hour, which is about a person every twenty seconds paying cover, having their ID and outfits checked, and checking coats if neccessary. After we hit capacity there is a HUGE wait, not because of any unneccessarily slow service in the bar anywhere, but we can't let anyone in until people leave and make space. Thus the rate of admission slows to match the rate of people leaving ... which, in a small bar which fills up early, isn't for quite awhile yet. Typically the line doesn't start moving smoothly again until 11:45 or so when the first major wave of people have been there for long enough to get tired and think about leaving.
>I have managed events with over 35,000 people and we got everyone in, in 30
>minutes.
If it's an event with 35 000 people am I safe in assuming it's in a park, or large structure like a stadium with multiple access points which can admit scores of people at a time? This isn't really a valid comparison to an event at a small nightclub with one entrance.
>I always hate it when I see someone successful in spite of themselves but that is sure >the case with this event.
I could understand your frustration if that were the case ... but purporting that Sin City does nothing and is successful is ridiculous. The event has new artwork every month and promotion in the form of flyers, posters and online event listings, as well as print ads. We have networked with a huge amount of local businesses who heavily cross-promote the night. On any given Sin City we have approximately a dozen people on our staff alone above and beyond the the club's staff making the event what it is in the form of DJs, dungeon activity, dress code enforcement and so on. Every year we volunteer our time and run booths at major shows such as the Taboo Sex Show to spread the word. On top of that we as the promoters regularly plan themed events complete with decorations and photographers.
To say the event has done nothing but open the doors on the road to being successful is ridiculous to say the least. In fact I can't think of too many alternative-themed events which have put in anywhere near the time of building infrastructure as Sin City.
But yes, the lineup can still be long at our event at 23 West. The simple fact of the matter is that it is a 275-person capacity club and a good 450 people typically attend the night there. No matter efficiently you run it, short of giving people a time limit while inside before kicking them out, there are going to be lineups.
>It's so simple, get a few people walking through the lineup, with aprons, tickets and >some cash.
>Take peoples money, give them a ticket and then all they have to do is >pass through >the ID check and they are in.
While I appreciate the suggestion, I'm not sure that would actually help, and I am extremely reticent about moving into policing cash deals on the street. Besides which, checking ID and paying are not things which slow down the line. It takes all of 30 seconds once you have gotten to the front of the line to pay and have your ID checked. Doing this ahead of time is not going to offset the wait with any major effect.
>I had 150 people in front of me, I got there right at 9:00, there is no reason I shouldn't >have been in by 9:15... not 10:30.
I don't want to accuse anyone of exaggeration, but we keep a door count and pay VERY close attention to the amount of people in the bar since we get visited by the police regularly to make sure we are not over capacity. And I guarantee you that at 10:30 we are WELL past 150 people ... more like 250+. We usually hit 150 people around 9:45ish at the latest.
>It's ridiculous that we all lineup, in our pvc, and heels, etc., freezing outside, only to pass >by one little ticket wicket with one single person responsible for collecting all the >admission money. How much money is lost in alcohol sales alone? If it takes an >average of 90 minutes to get in, I'm guessing that is at least 2 drinks per person in lost >revenue?
Sigh. We could potentially open an hour earlier but I'm not sure this would solve much. Tthere will still be lineups when the attendance exceeds the capacity of the club - which is most of the time - and on top of that people will start to feel they need to get there at 7:30 to get in instead of 8:30 which is almost equally undesirable.
>I know people that don't go anymore because of the lineups.
This is the direct reason why we started a second event in the month at a club with double the capacity. And for people who hate lineups, we STRONGLY encourage them to attend that event. Then, of course, the complaint is that the party isn`t as packed and crazy as at our smaller venue. There is no magic perfect balance where the club is constantly sold-out and packed yet no one ever has to wait.
>Hey, the events are popular, good for the promoter, but I hope those people realize it >is those in line that make the events a financial success and it is always a good idea to >provide good customer service, no matter what your business.
Of course. And we bend over backwards for our attendees. But no matter how you slice it there are going to be lineups when an event is attracting 500 people to a 275-person club.
>I hope someone doesn't come back with a lame excuse why it takes all that time to >get in but I do hope a few people will back me up on this one... who knows if enough >people speak up we might actually get in, in a reasonable manner sometime down the >road at future Sin City events.
I think making the claim that all you expect to hear are lame excuses or claiming right off the bat that the event is being run unreasonably is not doing anything to make anyone believe you actually want to work towards making constructive suggestions to the event organizers - it just sounds like you want to complain.
On average, once the doors open, we admit people to the point of capacity by shortly after 10 PM, that being about 260 people in just over an hour. I don't at all think it's unreasonable to admit the entire capacity of a club just over sixty minutes. We have three coat check on staff and they barely have a second to breathe during that first rush and typically don't get a spare second until 11 PM or so. If you are at the event and want to take one of the promoters aside and illustrate where you think they could be move at any more of a top speed than they already are, you are more than welcome. Mr. Dark and I are easily found by asking any staff member if you don't already know who we are.
Without major renovations to the venue, there is no possible way of expediting the process into the event.
The traffic jam is 100% Coat Check related, the club is poorly laid out to accommodate a large number of people, almost 100% of which are checking a coat, and of course on top of that some are changing, and some are checking bags as well as coats.
We could ID everyone before hand, there are problems in that, but we could, and check dress code on everyone before they enter, and collect money before people step through the door, and you'd still be standing in line waiting for people to get through coat check.
Some people tend to think that there is a solution, there isn't. As one of the dress code staff I have smashed my head against the wall trying to figure out what to do, I myself do a lot of subtle prodding to the venue staff to try and get more people inside.
You may have been at certain events, with lots of people, and everyone gets in fast, that's because the venue is set up for that.
Lastly, if you're waiting in line at 11:30, you're no longer waiting in line for people to get through coat check, you're waiting for people to leave the event because we've *cough* reached capacity.
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The coat check area itself needs to be renovated, it's horrifically designed, small, can only accommodate so many people, it's all pretty brutal.
Another option would be to have no coat check until 10:30 or so, but that endangers peoples belongings, as well as having people stay in street wear and detracting from the whole point of the night.
It's not so easy.
Richard
You and your friend(s) are laughing at 'anonymous', and you want to question my intelligence? It's been my lifelong dream to post on your site and the thought I might be removed has sickened me.
I had some constructive criticism, said I hoped you wouldn't come back with some lame excuse, you did, it's no sweat off my balls. If your feelings are so badly hurt that you want to remove my post rather than fix the problem then please do, powerful one!
BTW, have you ever seen a suggestion box, anywhere? Those comments are all anonymous. I did a google search before posting at 'your' site and it was the only thing that came up regarding 'Sin City', if there was an email address or a contact person (for Sin City) listed somewhere, I would have made a direct contact, and further to that I have made suggestions to the people there directly in the past and you can see where that got me (90 minutes to get in the door).
Oh, one more thing, Mr. English major, did you mean 'tangential'?
> what is 'whinging'?
English, which you apparently (along with other things) don't know as well as you think you do.
> I'm at least 20 years your senior (I'm over 30),
I'll be 40 this year.
> First, you sound a little bit to passionate to have nothing to do with the event.
I never said I have nothing to do with the event, simply that I am not one of the promoters nor do I speak for them. I do have a tangental association with the event, you're using it now.
> Secondly, there is nothing wrong with voicing criticism
There is, however, a great deal wrong with doing so anonymously, inappropriately, in the wrong place, contentiously, and to the wrong people.
> I can conclude you sure as hell aren't in business for yourself, if in fact even employed at all.
More genius. Those that know me are laughing at you. There isn't much point to ennumerating what I do. It's sufficient that this is my website, and I'm giving you one more stab at making a greater ass of youself for the sake of everyone's amusement before your account goes away and this thread moves to the "don't feed the trolls" forum.
Not every business model is based on pandering to the lowest common denominator. Mediocrity is a poor aspiration. Your average grasp of the English language, average intelligence, and average opinions are uninspiring and unwelcome here.
>Call the waaah!mbulance.... the obnoxious meat-monkeys.
I think you have made a positive impression, with everyone here, with the creative ability to combine the words 'fuck' and 'retard' (so original!) and thus, I'm honored you would even respond to my post. That and the word is 'whiny', not 'whiney' and what is 'whinging'?
Okay, now that we have established that I'm at least 20 years your senior (I'm over 30), let's address the rest of the dribble that rolls off your finger tips, assuming you weren't up all night working on that.
First, you sound a little bit to passionate to have nothing to do with the event. Secondly, there is nothing wrong with voicing criticism, in fact any half-sane business person would welcome it. I didn't take a bat to someone or burn the place down, I stated what I believe to be a big problem. If that is how you respond to a complaint I can conclude you sure as hell aren't in business for yourself, if in fact even employed at all.
Maybe people enjoy standing outside for an hour, I just happen to not be one of them. Come to think of it, those in front and behind of me, in the lineup were doing a bit of 'whinging', also!
Further, if you think any event that attracts 35,000 people comes without any problems than you really are delusional, although I'm sure nothing as extreme as someone showing up in jeans for a fetish night!!! That's sarcasm, in case I'm losing you here.
As for people skipping the line, there's a lot of people cutting into the line, but that only strengthens my position that someone should be outside monitoring things and collecting money, distributing tickets, and so on.
Further, I'm aware that there is a second event, but because there is I'm supposed to accept poor service at this location? Tell me how that makes any sense?
And last, but not least, the coat check. If the coat check is the ultimate problem, fix it. Of all the great problems in the world, in the past 100 years, that have been solved, where would you rank this one? Duh!
Now, stop protesting at the Olympic rallies and get a job, you fucking moron!
With any luck at all (and this is likely because I don't recall seeing anyone not dressed according to the code, and given where I am with the photo-booth I see most everyone) someone from the Sin City staff saw them and sent them packing. Their bribe would have been wasted money.
It's weird, Richards almost seems too mainstream to hold SinCity. But anyway, virtually no lines there is always a good thing, and the turnouts are great.
But while waiting in line for the Halloween party there back in October, I *did* see a couple of top40-ish American guys successfully bribe one of the doormen to get in, without costumes I might add. It wasn't one of the normal door people I see at SinCity all the time, but some dude who must be used to doing that on normal club nights in Vancouver. I know it's common practice for the masses, but it just made me sad though, thinking that having a dress /costume code, maybe we rose above that type of thing.
Just my 2 cents.
Call the waaah!mbulance. (dizzy)
Tell me, did those 35,000 have to adhere to dress code? Were any of them suburban tourists arguing that because they drove all the way in from Surrey they should be let in regardless of their jeans-and-t-shirt because they can't go home and change? Were any of them self-important addlebrained meat-monkeys trying to skip the line because they've showed up more than once before and their mere presence "makes" the night? So if people are paying outside and coming in quickly how do you plan to change the fact that there is only one door to the coat check? If people aren't lining up outside then there would be a clusterfuck blocking the stairs and half the dance-floor. Not much can be done about the physical limitations of the space at 23 West.
So what's the solution? How do you get around the problem of a club you have outgrown without fucking over the club owners that have been so helpful in making the night a success? How about starting a second night at a different venue better suited to handle a larger volume of people? Well, oh-great-and-glorious-rocket-scientist, that'd be the last Saturday of each month at Richard's on Richards. There are no lines to speak of at Richard's event though the attendance numbers are higher. The nights are Richard's have been running since last summer. Try paying some small attention before you start whinging.
Now, just to be clear, I'm not one of the promoters and I don't speak for the promoters. It is strictly my personal opinion that you are a whiney fucktard. I wouldn't be surprised if you actually are one of the obnoxious meat-monkeys.
