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Is Vancouver The Place To Be?

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Hi everyone, I'm Jon a British student, graduating next year and looking for adventure.  I was wondering if Vancouver is the place to be for a British borderline goth looking for short term employment and lots of fun goth clubs to waste whatever money I may earn.  As you can probably guess by the fact I'm consulting a goth forum rather my than my university's career services for advice, I am not really the 'career focused' type :-) its just that wherever go the local goth scene will probably play an important part of my social life.  Therefore apart from work related stuff (maximum money for minimal effort is the ideal), I would be grateful if anyone could tell me a bit about the Vancouver Goth Scene:  Is it big? Is it friendly?  Are there many good clubs? (I'm not too difficult to please I like everything from dark ambient to cheesy cheesy futurepop)

Grateful for your thoughts

Jon

Vancouver:

Current Club-nights(5):

Sanctuary - every Friday at the Lotus

Malfunction - 1st/3rd Saturday Club 23

Sin City - 2nd/4th Satuday Club 23

Galaxian - 5th Saturday Club 23

Descent - every Sunday at The Red Room

the Vancouver crowds tend to be friendly when approached but are generally reserved. I've visited other cities like Seattle and Winnipeg where the people were actively friendly (where they approach you to talk).

Calgary to my knowledge has no active scene in the way of club nights (not since the Warehouse) but they do have a presence of goths there.

Edmonton has an infrequent club night (Das Oontz) which falls only on long weekend Sundays. It has strong alternative scene though.

Toronto has a population base 2.5 times that of Vancouver and will beat out Vancouver in terms of numbers and nights.

Vancouver is number 3 for goth scenes on the West Coast trailing Seattle and Los Angeles. San Francisco was at 1 time ahead of Vancouver but became a victim of it's own success. Too many clubs opened sporting goth nights and all of them disappeared shortly after, leaving the crowd no venue and club owners distrustful of supporting a niche night that obviously failed before. Vancouver is also number 2 or 3 in Canada behind Toronto and possibly Montreal.

I take personal offense to the comment that the "Alberta Redneck" stereotype is true. I'm from Alberta, born and raised in a rather small town 300km north of Edmonton. Yes, there are "rednecks" in Alberta. But that doesn't make all Albertans flannel-wearing beer-drinking idiots that are only fit to work as riggers and lumberjacks. I've lived here in Vancouver for a little over 4 years now, and I personally find Alberta to be a far friendlier province.

To me the term "redneck" typically equates to "unintelligent", and that couldn't be further from the truth. Yes, our primary industries are oil and farming, and yes Alberta isn't the most liberal or forward-thinking province in the country sometimes. But that doesn't make Albertans "rednecks", in my opinion, and I'm not sure I appreciate the negative reputation that Albertans seem to have. I've met just as many "rednecks" here in Vancouver. The only difference is geography.

I think the biggest notable difference is this: Vancouver is very white-collar city mixed with a bunch of anti-establishment hippies. Being a pacific port, it's also very multicultural. Whereas Alberta is a very blue collar province (with the exception of Calgary, which is rather white-collar), and doesn't have the same kind of ethnic population.

/end rant

More to the point, Atratus is right about the Alberta club scenes. Edmonton has a good Goth night, but it's just that: A goth night. One night of the week, at one club. That's it. It's a younger crowd, and I find the people far friendler than the Vancouver crowd (as I've already mentioned), but if you're looking for lots of clubbing in the goth scene, Edmonton probably isn't your best bet for a destination. I've heard from friends that Calgary has a few good club nights, but I'd expect it's similar to what you'll find in Edmonton.

I'd say Vancouver is still the best option in terms off access and variety. I have no idea what goes on in Toronto, but I'd guess that it's probably as good as Vancouver, if not better.

The Albertan stereotype, sadly, has more than a grain of truth to it. A great many Canadians look on Alberta with the same disdain as the American "red states". Of course there are fun people in Alberta and Edmonton and Calgary both have a scene, but neither comes close to Toronto or Vancouver.

Put it this way, my father's family is from Alberta. I'm Canadian and could live and work in Alberta without the slightest difficulty. I could find work in Calgary in a snap and with the lower cost of living, do well there fiscally. But I am in Vancouver for the sake of what I enjoy when I'm not at work. And I have in the past come very close to moving to Toronto and I do like it there, excepting the weather.

One of the advantages of Toronto, to be fair and looking at it from the perspective of someone on a wanderyaar/working-abroad like yourself, is it's proximity to other cities. From Vancouver your options for driving away for a change-of-pace weekend are Seattle and Victoria. With 2-4 days to kill, Toronto is within striking distance of Montréal, Ottawa, New York, Boston, Detroit, and (with a bit of a stretch) Chicago.

I don't mind the cold either. It's actually the summers in Toronto that I can't stand. I don't do well with hot and humid. Minus 15 °C with blowing snow, whatever, you can dress for that, but 35 °C with so much humidity that fogs form in the subway tunnels is my idea of hell. 

Much appreciated advice, a friendly fairly open scene with a variety of good clubs is important to me so what you say certainly tempts me.  Th clubs sound fairly similar to the ones in Edinburgh with elder goths looking on distain at people dancing to 'This Shit Will Fuck You Up' and grumbling they aren't playing enough Sisters of Mercy B-sides :-)

I had heard Vancouver is pretty expensive and that is a concern, and while I don't need a fortune to get by I would like to earn enough to live somewhere nice and lead a full social life.  I was however told that I can do pretty well waving a British university degree in employer's faces.

I am considering also Toronto (the cold doesn't really bother me) along with Edmonton or Calgary partially because I hear they are good places for well paid short term employment, however how true is the stereotype of Alberta being populated mainly by rednecks?

Vancouver has one of the best, most vibrant goth scenes in North America. There are regular events every Friday, Saturday and Sunday. The scene is friendly, people are quite willing to chat with new people.

The music played in the clubs ranges quite a bit and depends a lot on who is in the DJ booth, ensuring opportunities ranging from the perk-goth, "OMGIHAVETODANCERIGHTNOW" flight to the dance-floor in mid-conversations to the practiced  übergoth disdain of, "Ugh! I can't believe they are playing this, I thought this was supposed to be a *goth* night." ;-)

Of course Vancouver has its downsides. There are a ridiculous amount beggars here, most of whom are professionals with well-practiced approaches, which can be unsettling when you are not used to it, and annoying as hell once you are.  And unless you happen to be coming from notoriously expensive London, you'll find that rent in Vancouver is expensive.

All things in, though, I'd say, yes, Vancouver is one of your best choices. The larger cities in the U.S. tend to be very cliquey. Toronto is good from the clubbing perspectivea nd worth consideration, but I personally find the summers are intolerably muggy and the winters intolerably cold. The scene here is more vibrant than you'll find in most English-speaking countries. Other than Vancouver the only other city I'd even consider in your situation would be Melbourne, AU.